If you’ve ever come across the quote, “Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people,” you likely saw that it was attributed to Eleanor Roosevelt.
But did the former first lady ever really say these words, or is the origin of the saying found elsewhere?
There are a number of different theories regarding who might have first made this thought-provoking statement, including the Socratic tradition as a whole, Charles Stewart, and Henry Thomas Buckle.
In this article, we’re going to take a closer look at the theories surrounding each of these sources, the Stoic meaning of the quote, how to practically apply it to your life, and so much more.
You will most commonly hear this quote attributed to Eleanor Roosevelt, the infamous former first lady and social activist. However, many others have been given credit for the pithy remark.
Let’s look at the evidence for each case.
This quote is most often attributed to Eleanor Roosevelt, who was famous for her insightful and thought-provoking commentary on a wide variety of topics. As an advocate for social justice, human rights, and intellectual growth, thinking that she may be the origin point of the saying doesn’t take a big mental leap.
Furthermore, she was a prolific public speaker and writer. The quote resonates with the themes she often discussed in her speeches and writings about character, wisdom, and social responsibility.
Finally, as a highly influential First Lady and public figure, many of her attributed quotes have permeated popular culture, leading to the very common belief that she’s the source of this quote.
Some have thought that James H. Halsey first spoke this quote in a convocation speech as the President of the University of Bridgeport back in 1947. However, in the way he phrased his statement, he acknowledges that the quote already existed as an epigram:
“Perhaps you have heard the little epigram which goes like this: “Great minds discuss ideas, average minds discuss events, and little minds discuss people.” Those who spend most of their discussion time in talk about people and events are not intellectually mature.”
Another person who is sometimes given credit for this quote is Hyman G. Rickover. Rickover, who was responsible for pioneering nuclear propulsion in the Navy, used this quote in a piece of writing. However, he states that the saying comes from an “unknown sage”:
“To the uneducated, abstract ideas are unfamiliar; so is the detachment that is necessary to discover a truth out of one’s own knowledge and mental effort. The uneducated person views life in an intensely personal way—he knows only what he sees, hears or touches and what he is told by friends. As the unknown sage puts it, “Great minds discuss ideas, average minds discuss events, small minds discuss people.”
Some sources attribute a similar sentiment to Charles Stewart, who expressed ideas about the levels of discourse and the nature of human conversation. Stewart's discussions on the quality of conversation might have influenced or been parallel to the development of this quote. However, the truth is that there really isn’t any evidence to link him to the specific phrasing of this quote.
You’ll also find people who claim this quote can be traced back to the Socratic tradition and other classical philosophical discourses that prioritize intellectual engagement and the pursuit of wisdom.
In Socratic dialogues, Socrates often emphasizes the importance of ideas and the pursuit of truth over trivial matters. This philosophical underpinning might have influenced the modern phrasing of the quote, even if it isn’t the actual source of the specific wording.
While Socrates himself did not say these exact words, the spirit of the quote definitely reflects the values of Socratic philosophy. This, essentially, makes it possible that the quote was inspired by or evolved from these ancient teachings.
One of the most thorough investigations into this question comes from the folks over at quoteinvestigator.com, who determined that Henry Thomas Buckle was, indeed, the originator of this maxim.
Henry Thomas Buckle, a British historian, wrote extensively about the progress of human knowledge and intellectual history. His writings often touched on the importance of ideas over mundane matters.
The themes of Buckle's work align closely with the idea that discussing higher concepts and ideas is a mark of intellectual distinction, which gives some credence to the attribution.
According to Quote Investigator, Buckle wrote these words while “building on earlier guidelines about desirable forms of conversation.” While the quote was employed in some ways by Hyman G. Rickover and H. Halsey, they weren’t the creators.
Now that we’ve dug through all the weeds of potential candidates for the originator of the quote let’s get to the fun part! Before we get into the key Stoic themes of the saying, we’ll take a look at each part of this three-part maxim.
This suggests that intellectually advanced and insightful individuals tend to focus their conversations on abstract concepts, theories, innovations, and ideas that can shape the future or lead to deeper understanding and progress.
They are engaged in thinking about solutions, philosophies, and possibilities– they are looking at things from a zoomed out vantage point, noticing patterns, making observations, and proposing ideas at a higher level.
This second part implies that people with a more average level of intellectual engagement tend to focus their conversations on current events, news, and happenings around them.
You’ve probably known people lille this– they talk about what has happened or what is happening, focusing on the details of events and their implications. According to our quote of the day, this is the middle point on the pyramid– it’s better to talk about events than people, but still less useful to talk about events rather than ideas.
Finally, the third part suggests that those with a narrower or less developed intellectual scope often focus their conversations on other people, such as gossip, personal affairs, and social dynamics.
These discussions are seen as less productive because they center on individuals rather than on broader ideas or events that could have wider significance.
We all get tempted to gossip sometimes, but it’s often not particularly useful to gab on about other people’s affairs.
So, what’s Stoic about this quote? Let’s break it down and see what the primary Stoic themes are that can be found in our saying of the day.
One of the most practically useful things us modern people can get out of Stoicism is the idea that we should discern what we can and can’t control and then only focus on the former.
"Make the best use of what is in your power, and take the rest as it happens."
At first, you might be wondering how this quote relates to the concept of the dichotomy of control.
When you think about it, though, discussing ideas often involves contemplation and understanding, which are within one's control. On the other hand, discussing people often involves gossip and judgment, which pertain to external matters beyond our control.
This quote obviously reflects the notion that wisdom is the highest of the virtues, as you have to use wisdom in order to best exercise the other three.
"As long as you live, keep learning how to live."
– Seneca the Younger
Not to beat a dead horse, but engaging in discussions about ideas aligns with the Stoic pursuit of wisdom and knowledge. It clearly reflects a commitment to intellectual growth and the development of one's character.
Another thing that Stoicism emphasizes is mindfulness and intentionality in thoughts and actions.
"First say to yourself what you would be, and then do what you have to do."
– Epictetus
Discussing ideas requires deliberate thought and reflection, promoting a mindful approach to conversations. In contrast, talking about people can often be impulsive and less thoughtful.
One important concept that Stoics advocate for is focusing on the greater good and the welfare of society, not on what is just good for you as an individual.
"What is not good for the beehive, cannot be good for the bees."
– Marcus Aurelius
Discussions about ideas often involve considering improvements, innovations, and philosophical insights that can benefit the broader community. On the other hand, gossiping about people does not contribute to the common good and can be harmful.
Our favorite Stoics teach us that inner peace comes from self-discipline and focusing on one's own moral and intellectual development.
"Very little is needed to make a happy life; it is all within yourself, in your way of thinking."
– Marcus Aurelius
Engaging in meaningful discussions about ideas can lead to personal growth and contentment, whereas, on the other hand, focusing on others' behaviors and shortcomings can lead to unnecessary stress and discontent.
Applying the quote "Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people" to your life involves consciously directing your focus and conversations towards more meaningful and intellectually enriching topics. Here are some practical steps to integrate this philosophy.
There are lots of things you can do here! Engage in lifelong learning. Read books, take courses, and explore subjects that interest you.
Furthermore, you can participate in discussions and forums that challenge your thinking and expose you to new ideas.
Another way to use this quote in your daily life is when you are actually conversing with others. Rather than focusing on people or events, steer discussions towards concepts, theories, and solutions. Ask questions that provoke thought and encourage deeper dialogue.
This quote doesn’t mean you shouldn’t stay updated on current events, but you should approach them analytically. Think about their broader implications and what lessons can be learned.
You can then discuss events in a way that connects them to larger ideas or societal issues rather than just the details of what happened.
It might be easier said than done, but avoid conversations that center around gossip or unnecessary critique of others. If such topics arise, you can gently redirect the conversation.
Do your best to focus on understanding and empathy rather than judgment. Recognize that discussing people often involves speculation and can be harmful.
Here are a few more things you can do to put this quote into practice:
Let’s look at some other famous quotes by some of the people who are commonly given credit for this quote.
“For our own success to be real, it must contribute to the success of others.”
– Eleanor Roosevelt
“No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.”
– Eleanor Roosevelt
“Do what you feel in your heart to be right - for you'll be criticized anyway. You'll be damned if you do, and damned if you don't.”
– Eleanor Roosevelt
“The future belongs to those who believe in the beauty of their dreams.”
– Eleanor Roosevelt
“You gain strength, courage, and confidence by doing the thing which you think you cannot do.”
– Eleanor Roosevelt
“A good leader inspires people to have confidence in the leader, a great leader inspires people to have confidence in themselves.”
– Eleanor Roosevelt
“Tomorrow is a mystery. Today is a gift. That is why it is called the present.”
– Eleanor Roosevelt
“Today is the oldest you've ever been, and the youngest you'll ever be again.”
– Eleanor Roosevelt
“I can't tell you how to succeed, but I can tell you how to fail: Try to please everybody.”
– Eleanor Roosevelt
“You wouldn't worry so much about what others think of you if you realized how seldom they do.”
– Eleanor Roosevelt
“I am who I am today because of the choices I made yesterday.”
– Eleanor Roosevelt
“Do one thing every day that scares you.”
– Eleanor Roosevelt
“Falling down is not a failure. Failure comes when you stay where you have fallen.”
– Socrates
“Awareness of ignorance is the beginning of wisdom.”
– Socrates
“If you want to be wrong then follow the masses.”
– Socrates
“The secret of happiness, you see, is not found in seeking more, but in developing the capacity to enjoy less.”
– Socrates
“In every person there is a sun. Just let them shine.”
– Socrates
“When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser.”
– Socrates
“True wisdom comes to each of us when we realize how little we understand about life, ourselves, and the world around us.”
– Socrates
“Most people, including ourselves, live in a world of relative ignorance. We are even comfortable with that ignorance, because it is all we know. When we first start facing truth, the process may be frightening, and many people run back to their old lives. But if you continue to seek truth, you will eventually be able to handle it better. In fact, you want more! It's true that many people around you now may think you are weird or even a danger to society, but you don't care. Once you've tasted the truth, you won't ever want to go back to being ignorant.”
– Socrates
“When you want success as badly as you want the air, then you will get it. There is no other secret of success.”
– Socrates
“He who is not contented with what he has, would not be contented with what he would like to have.”
– Socrates
“To find yourself, think for yourself.”
– Socrates
“There is no possession more valuable than a good and faithful friend.”
– Socrates
“The unexamined life is not worth living.”
– Socrates
“Men and women range themselves into three classes or orders of intelligence; you can tell the lowest class by their habit of always talking about persons; the next by the fact that their habit is always to converse about things; the highest by their preference for the discussion of ideas.”
– Henry Thomas Buckle
“First doubt, then inquire, then discover. This has been the process with all our great thinkers.”
– Henry Thomas Buckle
“The great enemy of knowledge is not error, but inertness. All that we want is discussion; and then we are sure to do well, no matter what our blunders may be. One error conflicts with another, each destroys its opponent, and truth is evolved.”
– Henry Thomas Buckle
“He who knows most believes the least.”
– Henry Thomas Buckle
“Sir, the slowness of genius is hard to bear, but the slowness of mediocrity is insufferable.”
– Henry Thomas Buckle
“Whenever a man boasts much about [his common sense], you may be pretty sure that he has very little sense, either common or uncommon.”
– Henry Thomas Buckle
“The duty of a philosopher is clear. He must take every pain to ascertain the truth; and, having arrived at a conclusion, he should noise it abroad far and wide, utterly regardless of what opinions he shocks.”
– Henry Thomas Buckle
What are some quotes from the ancients that touch upon similar themes? Let’s take a look.
"The chief task in life is simply this: to identify and separate matters so that I can say clearly to myself which are externals not under my control, and which have to do with the choices I actually control. Where then do I look for good and evil? Not to uncontrollable externals, but within myself to the choices that are my own…"
– Epictetus
"In our control is the most beautiful and important thing, the thing because of which even the god himself is happy— namely, the proper use of our impressions. We must concern ourselves absolutely with the things that are under our control and entrust the things not in our control to the universe."
― Musonius Rufus
"Some things are within our power, while others are not. Within our power are opinion, motivation, desire, aversion, and, in a word, whatever is of our own doing; not within our power are our body, our property, reputation, office, and, in a word, whatever is not of our own doing."
― Epictetus
“We should always be asking ourselves: “Is this something that is, or is not, in my control?”
― Epictetus
"If you want your children and wife and friends to live forever, you’re a fool, because you’re wanting things that aren’t within your power to be within your power, and the things that aren’t your own to be your own."
― Epictetus
"Just keep in mind: the more we value things outside our control, the less control we have."
― Epictetus
"There is only one way to happiness and that is to cease worrying about things which are beyond the power or our will."
― Epictetus
"It is impossible for a man to learn what he thinks he already knows."
– Epictetus
"The wise man sees in the misfortune of others what he should avoid."
– Marcus Aurelius
“I seek the truth...it is only persistence in self-delusion and ignorance that does harm."
– Marcus Aurelius
"No man was ever wise by chance."
– Seneca
“Now I will explain how you can recognize that you are not wise. The wise man is full of joy, cheerful and calm, undisturbed. He lives on equal terms with the gods. Now examine yourself: if you are never sad, if no hope disturbs your mind with anticipation of the future, if by day and night the condition of your spirit is even and unvarying, alert and happy with itself, then you have reached the high point of human good.”
– Seneca
“It is the nature of the wise to resist pleasures, but the foolish to be a slave to them.”
– Epictetus
“What’s the good of dragging up sufferings which are over, of being unhappy now just because you were then.”
– Seneca
“He is a wise man who does not grieve for the things which he has not, but rejoices for those which he has."
– Epictetus
“A physician is not angry at the intemperance of a mad patient, nor does he take it ill to be railed at by a man in fever. Just so should a wise man treat all mankind, as a physician does his patient, and look upon them only as sick and extravagant.”
– Seneca
"These are the signs of a wise man: to reprove nobody, to praise nobody, to blame nobody, nor even to speak of himself or his own merits."
– Epictetus
"Difficulty shows what men are. Therefore when a difficulty falls upon you, remember that God, like a trainer of wrestlers, has matched you with a rough young man. Why? So that you may become an Olympic conqueror; but it is not accomplished without sweat."
– Epictetus
"The world turns aside to let any man pass who knows where he is going."
– Epictetus
"He who exercises wisdom exercises the knowledge which is about God."
– Epictetus
"Everything - a horse, a vine - is created for some duty... For what task, then, were you yourself created?"
– Marcus Aurelius
"The true felicity of life is to be free from anxieties and pertubations; to understand and do our duties to God and man, and to enjoy the present without any serious dependence on the future."
– Seneca the Younger
“We do not choose our own parts in life, and have nothing to do with those parts. Our duty is confined to playing them well."
– Epictetus
"The highest duty and the highest proof of wisdom - that deed and word should be in accord."
– Seneca the Younger
"It is man's peculiar duty to love even those who wrong him."
– Marcus Aurelius
"Who-only let him be a man and intent upon honor-is not eager for the honorable ordeal and prompt to assume perilous duties? To what energetic man is not idleness a punishment?
The whole duty of man is embraced in the two principles of abstinence and patience: temperance in prosperity, and patient courage in adversity."– Seneca the Younger
"Remember that you are an actor in a play of such a kind that the author chooses...For this is your duty, to act well the part that is given to you; but to select the part belongs to another.
Even as the Sun doth not wait for prayers and incantations to rise, but shines forth and is welcomed by all: so thou also wait not for clapping of hands and shouts and praise to do thy duty; nay, do good of thine own accord, and thou wilt be loved like the Sun."– Epictetus
"Keep yourself simple, good, pure, serious, and unassuming; the friend of justice and godliness; kindly, affectionate, and resolute in your devotion to duty."
– Marcus Aurelius
"Take me and cast me where you will; for there I shall keep my divine part tranquil, that is, content, if it can feel and act conformably to its proper constitution."
- Marcus Aurelius
“People try to get away from it all—to the country, to the beach, to the mountains. You always wish that you could too. Which is idiotic: you can get away from it anytime you like. By going within. Nowhere you can go is more peaceful—more free of interruptions—than your own soul."
- Marcus Aurelius
"Never to wrong others takes one a long way towards peace of mind."
- Seneca the Younger
"There is but one way to tranquility of mind and happiness, and that is to account no external things thine own, but to commit all to God."
- Epictetus
"The mind maintains its own tranquillity by retiring into itself, and the ruling faculty is not made worse. But the parts that are harmed by pain, let them, if they can, give their opinion about it."
- Marcus Aurelius
"The mind is never right but when it is at peace within itself."
- Seneca the Younger
"If you are pained by any external thing, it is not this thing that disturbs you, but your own judgment about it. And it is in your power to wipe out this judgment now."
- Marcus Aurelius
Finally, let’s take a look at some other pithy quotes that convey a similar message.
“Great minds have purposes; others have wishes.”
– Washington Irving
“Little minds are tamed and subdued by misfortune; but great minds rise above them.”
– Washington Irving
“No great mind has ever existed without a touch of madness.”
– Aristotle
“Small mind competes, big mind collaborates and great mind encompasses.”
– Amit Ray
“Little minds have little worries, big minds have no time for worries.”
– Ralph Waldo Emerson
“A great mind becomes a great fortune.”
– Seneca
“A great mind is one that can forget or look beyond itself.”
– William Hazlitt
“Small minds are much distressed by little things. Great minds see them all but are not upset by them.”
– Francois de La Rochefoucauld
"To compose our character is our duty, not to compose books, and to win, not battles and provinces, but order and tranquility in our conduct. Our great and glorious masterpiece is to live appropriately. All other things, ruling, hoarding, building, are only little appendages and props, at most."
"You cannot perceive beauty but with a serene mind."
- Henry David Thoreau
"Never be in a hurry; do everything quietly and in a calm spirit. Do not lose your inner peace for anything whatsoever, even if your whole world seems upset."
"For every minute you remain angry, you give up sixty seconds of peace of mind."
"True and lasting inner peace can never be found in external things. It can only be found within in. And then, once we find and nurture it with ourselves, it radiates outward."
- Gautama Buddha
When we engage in the world of ideas, we are able to see things from a broader perspective and gain vital information we can use to improve ourselves more than when we focus simply on events or people. The quote “Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people” is a great way to remind ourselves of just this.
Are you looking for more thought-provoking quotes to help you improve your life day by day? Make sure you check out the rest of our Stoic Quotes blog!
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